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Offline SLast  
#1 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2011 9:11:00 AM(UTC)
SLast

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Looking through the class options it seems there are two types of multiclass.

The standard multiclasses: Brigand, Friar, Illusionist, Mage, Monk, Outlaw, Wizard, Warrior Mage, Warlock and Ranger, whose requisites are those of each of their component classes (or somewhat lower than that in the case of the Friar.)

And "prestige" classes with specific background info and higher minimum requisites: Paladin, Paladinic Ranger, Storm Rider, and Trollhunter.

The Trollhunter is replicated by the Warrior Mage and the Paladinic Ranger by the Ranger for those who don't want to or can't meet the requisites but the Storm Rider and Paladin have no corresponding classes. So anyone who wants to play a Cleric/Spellchanter/Thief or a Fighter/Cleric can only do so if they meet the higher requisites. This isn't such a big deal for the Storm Rider as the requisites are only 1 point higher (5 dex instead of 4) but the Paladin requires 5/5/5 stats which is far higher than the 3/5/3 that a standard Fighter/Cleric or Cleric/Fighter would need.

Perhaps a "Warrior Monk" or "War Priest" standard fighter/cleric or cleric/fighter multiclass could be created?

Also, the Paladin description says "gains powers after 3rd level as per traditional Paladin." Does this mean that the class cannot use miracles until after 3rd level?
Offline vbwyrde  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:06:00 PM(UTC)
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Great observations and questions, Sam!

At this point some of the classes I have are what I would call in 'Draft' mode, but most of them are reasonably well settled. Yes there are combinations of base classes that result in multi-classes of the standard kind, which is to say for example that a Brigand is a Fighter+Thief (in that order, meaning the Fighter aspect is emphasized).

As for the idea of "Prestige" classes, I don't really make that distinction, as I never really got that far into later editions of D&D to find out the specifics of what the D&D version of "Prestige" classes means, so I'm not sure if there is a similarity or not. But basically in the Elthos system all classes must be composed of one or more of the four base classes (Fighter, Thief, SpellChanter, and/or Cleric). Paladins are generally speaking Fighter+Cleric. That one is kind of up for grabs at the moment in terms of it's technical implementation, but the concept is that a Paladin is a Holy Warrior, who has powers that stem from the Merovingian Kings of ancient lore, who were said to be able to heal by laying on of hands among other things. I also like the idea that at some level (probably 3rd in my game) they get to summon an intelligent horse, and exercise other Paladinic Powers. These Powers, however, are not the typical mystic power that are cast by invocation, but are a different sort, and somewhat more intimate in that they are internal powers which the Elkron (deities) grant to Paladins when they achieve higher levels. That said, it's still in 'draft' so I'm open to suggestions.

The reason that some of the "Prestige" classes (I don't mind calling them that so long as it's understood that I don't mean that in whatever the D&Dish sense is, necessarily) have higher base requisites is potentially linked as well to the amount of Skill Learning Points that class receives and the Experience Base required to go up in levels. Again that needs probably a bit of ironing, so don't be too surprised if the class definitions for some of those change. The basic ideas, to the degree possible and sensible, is to have the classes balance out, but still leave the system flexible enough so that Gamesmasters going forward can create their own classes. If they balance them appropriately, and I intend to do so for mine, then players will be able to select between them without saying "gosh that one makes NO sense". But balancing can be a little bit tricky, which is why I do a rudimentary calculation and recommendation on the form that allows GMs to create new classes and offer that as a recommended suggested value for Experience Base.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts! I will look over the classes again and see if I notice any ironing needed at this point... and of course if you have suggestions please let me know. :)

Thanks again!
Offline vbwyrde  
#3 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:34:00 AM(UTC)
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From a design perspective I think the question for Classes is whether or not specialty classes such as Trollhunter need to balance out with other classes so that in the end all classes are mathematically equal? My tendency is to say, yes, they should, at least so far as Experience Base is concerned. So the way it should work, basically, is that the more sub-classes that go into the mulit-class the higher the Experience Base, which makes the Class harder to achieve new levels with, which in turn is offset by the fact that mulit-class characters have more skills and/or powers to choose from than single classes. Lastly, the consideration involves what should be the Requisite requirements to be allowed to take the given class. At minimum Requisites should be no lower than those required for all of the sub-classes. However, in some cases, if a Class gets extra cool stuff like special powers, or is just the sort of Class that only a super toughie could really be expected to take, then the Requisite requirements may be higher. In that case, I don't see that there is a necessity to make the class compensate with a lower Experience Base, or anything like that... it is just that such Classes, (which Sam referred to as "Prestige Classes", though I'm not sure I agree entirely with the designation - but it will do for now), are simply tougher.

That said, again, I'm open to re-configuring the classes if people have reasonable suggestions, or if the mathematics turns out to require better balancing for any reason. Let me know if you recommend any changes and I'll consider it.

Also note that other Gamesmasters on the system can configure their own classes any way they wish. There is a certain balancing act that comes into play, and so GMs need to give a reasonable amount of consideration to their choices so as to not unbalance their worlds... unless that is an effect they are going for (ie - lets say in Sam's world Fighters predominate, so he gives them an advantage of some kind in the class configuration).

Also Note: Recommended Values combine the base values for the class parts and subtract 10 for each additional class added to the multi-class. So Thief is 20, SpellChanter is 30, so the SpellChanter-Thief multi-class is 30+20-10=40. This gives multi-classes a discount on Experience Base, which is done to mitigate the disparity of leveling between single and multi-class Characters. These values are recommendations, however, and can be overwritten by the Gamesmaster.
Offline vbwyrde  
#4 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:55:00 AM(UTC)
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PS - I updated the Paladin Class description to include my thoughts on the Powers and at what level they would be acquired. Powers in this case are not invocations, but are simply used x times per day. Open to additional suggestions, of course.
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