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Offline vbwyrde  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:59:00 AM(UTC)
vbwyrde

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:ugeek: I am currently reviewing all Mystic Powers with an eye toward rationalizing and consolidating the lists of miracles and spells. One basic premise that I'm working toward is that it is far more likely for a Mystic Power to effect Mystic Points than Life Points. Most Offensive Mystic Powers should impact Mystic Points in the defender.

So how would that effect a spell like Fire Bolt? I'm thinking that it could be that the spell's effect is that it casts something like Spirit Fire, which gives fiery damage to the Mystic Body of the opponent. Remember, when Mystic Points drop below 0 it is not necessarily that the person dies, just like when Life Points drop below 0 (you can get to -4 before actually dying), but what happens is that the defender becomes mentally incapacitated. Something along these lines would do:

0 = Mind is fuzzy, decision making is difficult, and spells or skills can not be used.
-1 = Memory is sketchy, communication is difficult, and hallucinations are possible. Decision making is highly improbable.
-2 = Severely degraded memory, communications, and decision making requires a critical success.
-3 = Memory is lost, communications and decision making becomes impossible.
-4 = Mortally wounded psyche. Permenant memory loss, communications, and decision making. The victim is a vegetable.

All that said, I have left a couple of Mystic Powers hitting Life Points where it seemed to make sense.

Ok, now for the spells. I am attaching an excel sheet with all of the Elthos Mystic Powers in the "orig" sheet as they are now, and in the "mod" sheet what revisions I'm thinking of so far.

Please take a look and let me know your thoughts (unless you are MP -3 or less, in which case... never mind).

Thanks!
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Offline grimjester  
#2 Posted : Saturday, July 21, 2012 2:55:00 PM(UTC)
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I haven't looked at the file yet, but I have a few suggestions from the start. I am not certain if I have written these down or discussed these with you before, but here they are:

I would go with more concrete descriptions for negative mystic points. As they are, I feel like there will be too much confusion about what is possible under certain conditions.

/0= Visibly shaken. Pale.
-1= -1 penalty on actions. All of the above. Speech is forced/slurred.
-2= -2 penalty on actions. Speech is not possible. Shaken and pale.
-3= Unconscious.
-4= Brain dead.

My other suggestion is that if most spells affect Mystic Points, and there are no ways for a player to mitigate that damage the way they would for physical attacks, then damage for these spells should be reduced. If they are not reduced, then they should have either steep costs, or conditions which must be met when casting.
Offline vbwyrde  
#3 Posted : Saturday, July 21, 2012 3:32:00 PM(UTC)
vbwyrde

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I haven't looked at the file yet, but I have a few suggestions from the start. I am not certain if I have written these down or discussed these with you before, but here they are:

I would go with more concrete descriptions for negative mystic points. As they are, I feel like there will be too much confusion about what is possible under certain conditions.
Originally Posted by: grimjester Go to Quoted Post

/0= Visibly shaken. Pale.
-1= -1 penalty on actions. All of the above. Speech is forced/slurred.
-2= -2 penalty on actions. Speech is not possible. Shaken and pale.
-3= Unconscious.
-4= Brain dead.


Ah... that is more sensible in that actual numeric consequences get assigned. I also think your descriptions are worth adding, but I'm not sure if mine are worth excluding. I do favor adding things like memory lapse, possible hallucinations, to help the GM to consider the possibilities for someone who has been driven to the edge (and beyond) by magic. Mostly, when it all goes south, magic drives people insane, and in the end makes them a vegetable. Along that road, I think, should be the various 'losing your mind' effects. I'm thinking of fusing yours and mine together. Any thoughts/objections to that?

Originally Posted by: grimjester Go to Quoted Post

My other suggestion is that if most spells affect Mystic Points, and there are no ways for a player to mitigate that damage the way they would for physical attacks, then damage for these spells should be reduced. If they are not reduced, then they should have either steep costs, or conditions which must be met when casting.


That's an interesting point. Magical Wards, in such a world, would inevitably become popular, just like leather armor is popular. One way to handle it might be to make magical wards less expensive... which would make sense if they are popular as the supply would therefore be high.

On the other hand, I could make the effects of spells less (ie 3rd Level spells would not do 3d6 of damage, but all would do something like 1d6, as most weapons do)... however, I'm not in favor of that. For one thing, while high level wizards can inflict a great deal of mystic damage, they are constrained by the number of Mystic Points they can cast (2*Level) in any one spell. And they are constrained by the total amount of Mystic Points they have available. A 6th Level Wizard with 6 Wisdom has 36 Mystic Points to cast. A 6th Level spell (such as Lightning Bolt) can inflect 6d6 points of damage, or if a critical is scored an absolute maximum of 216 MP damage, which might happen 1 in 216 times. Our Wizard can cast that spell 6 times and then is out of Mystic Points. So if he does not score criticals, but does do the maximum normal damage possible, he can do 216 points of damage before running out. If he did, astoundingly, manage to get all critical hits with maximum damage then his total maximum Mystic Damage would be 1296 Mystic Points in 6 melees! That would Vegetablize 130 1st Level fighters in 36 seconds! WOW!! :twisted:

However, on average, he will do half the normal maximum, which is still hefty at 108 mystic points of damage. But we are talking about a 6th Level Wizard who should be a force to be reckoned with. In any case, the point is that the fighter, even the lowliest most meager fighter in the world, can do 1d6 damage per melee indefinitely. A fighter with a 3 Strength can do on average 3.5 points of damage every time he hits. Since there is no limit to the number of melees he can fight (a little unrealistic because people in the real world do get tired, and I do have an optional mechanic for that regarding Fatigue, but that's optional, and we're not using that rule). In the end the lowly fighter can deliver a lot more damage than a Wizard, only he must do so more slowly. Muuuuch more slooooowly.

As we compare a fighter and a wizard going up in levels, at first we can see that the Wizard is at a disadvantage in terms of the ability to inflict damage (or take it, if you are looking at Life Points), though he makes up for it by having a wildly diverse set of powers, and many of them are offensive and at varying Ranges. Nevertheless, over time the wizard becomes more and more like heavy artillery. Bombarding the opposition with large doses of damage in a short time, ... yet with a big limitation in terms of available mystic points, and maximum output per spell. We should also note that Character Levels can go above 6, increasing both Mystic Points and Maximum Mystic Points Per Spell. Eventually the Mystic becomes Gandalfian. But not for a long time.

So do the fighter and the wizard balance each other out? Well, my view is that this remains to be seen, and is pretty much going to be a subjective valuation. I think the mathematics suggest at least that there is reason to argue that they do indeed balance. And that is why I'm not really so sure that I would want to reduce the amount of fire power a wizard has. That would make them, in the end, I think, far too diminutive in comparison with the never-ending-fight-capacity of the fighters.

So the alternative is to look at the availability of mystic wards, and their effectiveness. I would say that cheap ones should be available from any old biddy in town who cares to hand them out. More effective wards get more expensive, just like chainmail. Then eventually you get your Relic and Artifact level Wards which are worth their weight in gold, so to say. Thus, I think the key is to balance out the availability of wards. And that, in my opinion, should be calculated in accordance with the prevalence of wizards in the world. Thus far in the campaign we have not seen too many wizards. In the Hobbington area there are only a handful, really. Your party has just been lucky enough to bump into them, perhaps.

As always, thanks for the thoughts and suggestions! Much appreciated!
Offline vbwyrde  
#4 Posted : Sunday, July 22, 2012 5:16:00 AM(UTC)
vbwyrde

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To get things rolling in the direction I'm thinking should work out, I've added a new Armor called "Mystic Ward: Alden" (Alden means "old wise protector"). Here are it's stats:
Code:
Name:                           Mystic Ward: Alden
Armor Class Modifier (ACM):     0
Dexterity Modifier (DXM):       0
Damage Absorption (DAB):        0
Movement Mod:                   0
Tech Level:                     Bronze Age
Weight:                         0
Cost In Iron:                   30

Description:  A small wooden medallion on a leather thong with a  single rune engraved into it.  It provides +1 Mystic Point Damage Absorption / Character Level.


Thoughts/comments/suggestions?
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