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Offline vbwyrde  
#1 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 7:21:00 AM(UTC)
vbwyrde

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Code:
Name..........Parry Dodge
World ID......Elthos
Elkron........None
Category......Combat
Skill Level...2
Thief   ......Y*
Fighter.......Y
SpellChanter..E
Cleric........E


Description: Allows the Character to Parry or Dodge an incoming non-Missile Attack. It must be Declared BEFORE the Attack is rolled. The Parry Dodge Skill Level is rolled verses the incoming Attack Level to see if the Parry Dodge is successful. If successful, no Attack Roll is made but the blow "Misses" as though it was. If successful it also allows the Dodger to Move 1 grid unit in any direction to an open grid space, so long as that does not violate any Zone of Control Rule (Stealth can be used to avoid this limitation). No return Attack can be made when using Parry Dodge, unless a Critical Hit is scored for the Success Roll. On a Fumble the Character trips and falls.
Offline grimjester  
#2 Posted : Sunday, November 25, 2012 8:34:00 AM(UTC)
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The new skill works, but is it necessary? This is becoming GURPSIAN (complicated). Although I like GURPS at times, if I want to play a complex game, I will play a complex game. Also, users may decide to make this system complicated, and that's fine.

BUT (<---Big Butt)

Parrying and dodging, in my eyes, is included in the core rules. High dexterity increases your chance to avoid attacks. Hit points reflect using martial training, such as parrying, or dodging to reduce damage when struck. At least that's always how I interpret what a large portion of hit points represents.

What Elthos "ships" with will set the tone. I would rather go with a simple system that works, and makes sense, so that people can complicate it if they'd like.
Offline vbwyrde  
#3 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 2:46:00 AM(UTC)
vbwyrde

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Thanks! You have a big Butt, there (*har har*) :lol: ... and a fair point. Lets remember though that what is likely to happen is that most people who log onto the system will be coming in as Players of some GM. Most of those people (the hugely vast majority) will not come in as MY players, and so they actually will not see Elthos, the world, but instead will see their chosen GM's world. Every Player who decides to GM will get a new world. That world will come with some stock stuff, and a very limited set of stuff at that. This includes skills. But, the new worlds get their default settings and stuff from the Default World, not Elthos. So they will not get any of the new things I'm adding to Elthos... unless they specifically go to the Trading Post, and choose to add things from Elthos, or any other World whose GM has made his or her things Public. Given that, do you still feel as strongly about excluding this rule from Elthos?

Personally, I think it kind of fits with Elthos, which may get a bit GURPSy, in a small way, but not ever go nearly as far as GURPS does... pretty sure.

As for what Hits are... actually in Elthos (ie my conception) Hit Points are the number of points in damage it takes to kill someone, and do not reflect dodging or armor advantages. Those advantages / modifiers related to Parrying and Dodging are implied and are related to Dexterity, so yes, you're right - a person's natural ability to dodge and parry instinctively is related to Dexterity (or the lack thereof - remember you can have a negative Dexterity Modifier) . When a character "Hits" another, the armor Absorbs the force of the blow to some degree (in an advanced far more GURPSY system the armor takes the Hits itself and disintegrates over time, requiring it to be repaired or replaced). When the force of the blow is absorbed by the armor, the amount of damage actually delivered to the Character (Hit Points) is reduced by that amount. So yes, High Dexterity does increase your chance to avoid attacks. But with training you can increase your ability to Dodge and Parry. Not all characters who may need to fight are going to necessarily have High Dexterity. For those who don't (lets say a 1 or 2 Dexterity Fighter (remember there is no restriction on lower Dexterity for Fighters) having the Parry Dodge Skill available will be a skill they can focus on that will allow them to survive combat much more readily, despite it's technical disadvantages. If you every play a low Dexterity Fighter, I'm thinking you're going to see the usefulness of the Parry Dodge skill to you. Maybe I'll toss in a low Dex fighter and give him Parry Dodge so we can play around with the idea and see if it works or not. If not, I can always delete it.

Overall, remember, though, that every GM can make their own world as GURPSy as they want. I think through experimentation people will settle on the right level of it for themselves and their Players.

Also, to make things easier I am now including the Skills Description in the Character Sheet print outs. That will help a lot. Originally I didn't because the Skills had descriptions like "Lock Picking" without any associated rules. Now at least some skills have more specific rules, so it will be good to have them right there on the character sheets.
Offline grimjester  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 27, 2012 10:09:00 PM(UTC)
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I don't feel strongly against you using it. I don't entirely dislike it, or think it's broken. I just wouldn't include it in a default world. Since this has come up, a good deal of thought will have to go into what gets into a default world, and how many template worlds/skill sets you will include with basic registration. Although some people will want to make their game from the ground up, they will be rare. Most people will want more to start with and the ability to modify it.

Hit points are subject to interpretation. After playing D&D for several years, I began to rationalize hit points as a combination of physical toughness, will, stamina, and martial skill. It helps me narrate better. For example: A troll swings an ax at a commoner with no armor or weapon, hits, and does 8 points of damage. The commoner has 4 hit points. The commoner covers his eyes and screams before the ax cuts through his chest, nearly ripping him in two. The troll swings the same ax at a seasoned warrior with no armor or weapon, hits, and does 8 points of damage. The warrior has 12 hit points. The warrior sees the troll's slow swing, and desperately dodges back enough to turn an otherwise fatal hit into a nasty gash across his chest. If the warrior had a weapon, and the player indicated that he would try to parry the troll's blade, I would simply alter the narrative. The warrior raises his sword against the troll's ax, but his sword is knocked to the side. Still, the sword deflected the ax's path enough to turn a deadly blow, into a nasty gash across the chest.

I tend to use this method with systems that increase hit points as characters level. I don't use this narrative method for systems like GURPS that have separate rolls for dodging, blocking and parrying as well as hit and armor locations. Detailed systems like GURPS tell the story of combat through numbers, without the need for detailed narrative, which some people like.
Offline vbwyrde  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, November 28, 2012 3:58:00 AM(UTC)
vbwyrde

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The question of world defaults is an interesting one. I think that can actually be taken up in a separate thread, otherwise future searchers of the forum might not notice it here. The link to that thread is here: World Packages - Concept

As for the interpretation of Hit Points, yes, there are a variety of ways I've seen Hit Points interpreted, that's true. In my case, for Elthos (ie - my world in in the Elthos system) I have it that Hits are the toughness of the Character. The difference between the 1st Level Peasant and the 4th Level Warrior, and the reason the latter has more Hits is because tough living and hard experiences have taught that character how to resist the Shock of combat. The 1st level guy can only take so much shock. Hit by a troll for 8 hits? He can not take the shock, his brain shuts down, nervous system goes into override, and his heart stops. He's dead, not from the wound necessarily but from the Shock of having been whacked off his feet by a troll with an ax. If that happened to either of us... well the results might be the same. However, the 4th Level warrior, having been hit by many weapons and endured many wounds and blows of combat (or the equivalent) has raw visceral Confidence. Remember that in my conception Confidence is what is actually being accumulated with Experience. And so our 4th Level Veteran gets hit by the same troll, with the same force, but instead of being killed from the Shock he is thrown off his feet, with the same gaping wound... yet he not only does not die from the shock, but has the grit, the nerves-of-steel, the courage and determination to get up and swing at the monster again. So the way I visualize it is that the Hit Points are related to a combination of physical toughness, combat-confidence, and mental fortitude. The dodging and parrying I have as separate things, where the blow missed, and no damage was done. I think that either interpretation could work, but in my case, I want to add Parry Dodge as a Skill because of this, and because they have internal limiters that I like. I think it will make, when we get to it, combat tactics a bit more interesting... especially when the combat maps are used, and the movement is taken account of in detail. We'll get to that again sometime, I'm sure.

As I see it, Elthos can get pretty GRUPSy, and my own goal with my world is to bring it to a low to mid level of GURPSishness, and not leave it in the default super-pasteurized state. Of course the beauty of the system is that after trial and error I can change my mind, and remove or modify the skills to what makes sense as we go along. And of course other GMs will do the same for their own worlds. To me, that's the beautiful thing about the ODS... it lets each GM decide for themselves what fits and works.
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